Curse

Duke.07 · Dec 05, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

/notsigned

Consider PvP. What would happen there? You get GvG matches running for hours because there is no consequence beside using up a res when you die. What about the Arenas? I faced a FOUR MONK team before and won. Why? Because one of the monks made a single mistake and we were able to kill him. His DP racked up until the other monks used up all their resses. We were able to spike another monk when they were ressing and we ended up winning. DP is extremely important in PvP. For a PvE perspective, a reusable res is what makes GW a unique game. Most games: you die, get rezzed up in another spot with all your stuff gone and you have to completely rebuild from the bottom. Guild Wars is unique as you have (almost) no penalty for dying and definitely no permanent effects. Removing DP would completely unbalance PvE. DP is what actually makes it hard. Situation: Oh noes! Party wipe! Run monk, run! Monkie runs away and OMG he has rebirth. Yay rebirth time! Full party back up and running in about a minute, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SIDE AFFECTS. and if we use your idea of of 1 kill=-1%DP, then "ALOE SEED KILLING TIME!" Death Penatly is the only way that it makes it hard in PvE. If you remove it then you are removing fun not adding it.

Poqow · Dec 05, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Do you people even read posts anymore? Or do you just see certain words you don't agree with and take it from there?

I do not want DP removed completely. I would like to see how you reduce it changed. Not go away completely, just go away faster. Some places, take Arachni's Haunt for instance, have lots of low-level mobs that don't give suitable XP to reduce DP. You need +75 for each 1%.

If the DP mechanic were changed (read: NOT removed), to 1 kill = -1%, you could still drop DP AFTER YOUR CONSUMABLES HAVE RUN OUT. You shouldn't have to rely on Honeycombs or Grails or Snickers bars to compensate for a blatantly-overpowered boss.

"Hey, let's make bosses super powerful, and then add 'consumables' so the players can keep up!"
"Why not just lower the boss level, or make players more powerful?"
"No, that would unbalance the meta! Skills cannot be made more powerful! Unless they're monster skills..."

Do you get that? Certainly makes sense to me. Any kill gives you morale. Not a difficult concept to grasp.

Finally, a supporter of my cause, albeit a bit muddled. Thanks Phoenix.

This just proved that you were struggling in NM with the Arachni's example. The baby spiders give you 0! Omg I can't work off the DP! Change up your builds, look up some good team builds and change your heroes up. That might be a better solution to the suggestion of removing DP. 1 kill = 1% is way too much. Its already like 2 kills = 1% in HM, and thats worked off fairly easily.

Keekles · Dec 05, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

/not signed

I would say lern2play, but that would be rude.

So I'll just say, "Think about the area you're playing in, and what each of your characters are doing. If there are competent people behind those characters, and they're running competent skill bars, then DP should only become an issue when a monk lags out, or your group over-aggros. Personally, I've never had many issues with over-powered bosses, since once I figure out how to counter them, they're no longer over-powered, but push-overs. I usually bring a shutdown character in all my groups anyway, makes things much easier."

You can't see me · Dec 05, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

I really, really, hope the OP is not at all seriousness in his suggestion.

Is the next generation actually being BORN with lower IQ's from birth?

Phoenix Tears · Dec 05, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke.07

/notsigned

Consider PvP. What would happen there? You get GvG matches running for hours because there is no consequence beside using up a res when you die. What about the Arenas? I faced a FOUR MONK team before and won. Why? Because one of the monks made a single mistake and we were able to kill him. His DP racked up until the other monks used up all their resses. We were able to spike another monk when they were ressing and we ended up winning. DP is extremely important in PvP. For a PvE perspective, a reusable res is what makes GW a unique game. Most games: you die, get rezzed up in another spot with all your stuff gone and you have to completely rebuild from the bottom. Guild Wars is unique as you have (almost) no penalty for dying and definitely no permanent effects. Removing DP would completely unbalance PvE. DP is what actually makes it hard. Situation: Oh noes! Party wipe! Run monk, run! Monkie runs away and OMG he has rebirth. Yay rebirth time! Full party back up and running in about a minute, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SIDE AFFECTS. and if we use your idea of of 1 kill=-1%DP, then "ALOE SEED KILLING TIME!" Death Penatly is the only way that it makes it hard in PvE. If you remove it then you are removing fun not adding it.

lol, when i read such ignorant blind crap, I get sick ...

1. all those not signers, go first to you opticians and let you make spectacles, or learn to read correct...
No one here of us wants to REMOVE the DP System completely..no it should be only changed a bit, so that the system is not so heavily unbalanced, what it is imo with reducing max Hp to under the Half, one thing, which makes also such Skills like Prot Spirit as side effect unbalanced > think only of 55 HP monks with DP, having even lesser HP then 55... there are douzens of other negative death penalty effects out there, which i listed a bit in my previous posting, which could characters receive additional after the Health malus reached its max of -25%, which make the DP even far more mean, then reducing the max hp of "normal" non 55hp characters to a point, where you simple can't survive in HM, because monsters there do simple insta kil you there then in seconds... now tell me how a player should then at such a situation reduce its death malus by killing monsters, when anything needs only to fart you, to kill you ?

2. to the bullshit you wrote there about aloe seeds ... >.> as if everywhere in the game would pop out hundreds of lvl 0 monsters just for your team, because our whole party is near 60DP ...lool ..dude, where do you live, to dream about such stupid things ? behind the moon, direct right ? rofl or what ?

So you find it also fun, when you just have wasted like 3+ hours in a Dungeon, because you receive on last stage within some seconds such a high party DP, that you become unable to remove it, because monsters are in HM just to blatantly unbalanced, to be able to kill them with certain DP, before anyone of your party members dies again first and collects more DP, making it again alot harder to kill something.
Best example is Vlox HM Stage 3...try there to remove your DP, once you have like 30-45% Party DP on all characters, without using any consumeables ANY !!! so i also mean too not any of the character buffing consumeables.
Its impossible to do that....especially when such imba monsters love to camp then at your rezz shrine >.> and perma repeat to full rezz every 2 minutes >.< and rezzed monsters in PvE receive so or so NO DP at all, what is one of the most imbaesr things at all in pvE ...

when we players get DP..then monsters should receive also DP.... so simple is that. Anything other ist just unbalanced and unfair.

Avatar of Odin · Dec 05, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

you are clinically insane /fail.

Shadow Spirit · Dec 05, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

It's called a PENALTY for a reason. It's supposed to penalize you for dying by making things harder!

It's called HARD MODE for a reason. It's supposed to be hard! If you don't have fun playing HM, NM is there for you to enjoy.

With all the consumables and PvE Only skills that we have been given, this is really a non-issue.

Darksun · Dec 05, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

No one here of us wants to REMOVE the DP System completely..no it should be only changed a bit, so that the system is not so heavily unbalanced...

And like most of the /notsigned said, it's NOT unfair, it's fine how it is. Having played every mission in all the games, I'd have to say its actually very lenient. I'd honestly say it would be fair to apply the 60% DP restart to normal mode.

moshakirby · Dec 05, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

lololololololol

/not signed

There are millions of different items out there for removing death penalty, you even get them at the end of Snowman Lair dungeon, now how is it unbalanced if you can remove it at will?

*Get some DP removal items
*Get some better skill bars
*...get some skill
*Stop playing an MMO with NPCs.

Angelic Upstart · Dec 05, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

This has to be the worst idea ive seen posted in seriousness, and i have seen some bad ones.....
Not signed..the game has managed perfectly well with this system for two and half years.

Koda Kumi · Dec 05, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Yes, let's go with this 'solution' to a nonexistant problem!

While we're at it, let's decrease attack speed and damage in HM as well, cause otherwise you might even die from mobs...
And set all those mobs in HM at a somewhat lower level. After all, Earthquakes at 18 earth magic hurt more than those at 16 that players can get, and that would hurt the balance of PvE, right? :P

Oshi~...

Woop Shotty · Dec 05, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Spirit

It's supposed to penalize you for dying by making things harder!

Makes me think of Buddhism a little.

Captain Robo · Dec 05, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

oh hi, I heard the pve in this game was hard.

Ember010 · Dec 05, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Ehm..why? (Complete PvE Person btw, don't do GvG)

Just no? Ursan is overpowered enough, wanna have an experiance similar to that with no dp then go mash buttons with an ursan group.

/HellNoSoNotSigned

roflcopter2445 · Dec 05, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

You're steamrolling through an explorable zone or a dungeon. Everything's dying at your feet. Your heroes builds are working wonderfully. You take a few casualties, but they're light and easily remedied. A 15% DP here or there, worked off quickly due to the abundant mob counts.

You get to the boss. You put on the buffs. Celerity, Grail of Might. You wish you still had a good supply of CC's stashed.

The attack begins.

Super skills start casting, but they aren't your skills. The boss's HP bar twitches, yet doesn't falter. You start losing people. The nuker. The monk. There goes the tank. The MM drops and the survivors are awash in hostile minions.

The DP's rise. Grail and Celerity expire. Res shrine...

The boss has skills that hit for 100, 200, 300 damage, if not more! Your health after 60% is... under 200, if not for your armor. The odds favor the chea- *ahem* the boss, of course.

You're screwed. You fail. There aren't enough mobs left for the DP-reducing XP. Thanks Death Penalty! I couldn't lose you fast enough!

/resign
/sigh

I'm sorry, but this sequence of events takes place way, way too often in Guild Wars. Death Penalty is easy to lose, in the right situations, but in others it is nigh impossible. Once you have it, you're done. Game over man.

I know, I know. The Death Penalty mechanic can't be fully removed from the game. Balance issues and all that... *coughwhatbalance?!hack* But the way it is reduces can be altered. Instead of +75XP = -1%, why can't it be 1 Kill = -1%? Get rid of it faster, without buffs or scrolls, helpful as they are when you have them. Get back into the fight! The AI's already crippled, DP acts only as lead paint chips, or gas fumes.

One kill, one percent. It's simple math. Make the game fun again.

Discuss.

Here's an answer to your problem and your moaning - http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Powerstone_of_Courage

Nuclfus · Dec 05, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

You're steamrolling through an explorable zone or a dungeon. Everything's dying at your feet. Your heroes builds are working wonderfully. You take a few casualties, but they're light and easily remedied. A 15% DP here or there, worked off quickly due to the abundant mob counts.

You get to the boss. You put on the buffs. Celerity, Grail of Might. You wish you still had a good supply of CC's stashed.

The attack begins.

Super skills start casting, but they aren't your skills. The boss's HP bar twitches, yet doesn't falter. You start losing people. The nuker. The monk. There goes the tank. The MM drops and the survivors are awash in hostile minions.

The DP's rise. Grail and Celerity expire. Res shrine...

The boss has skills that hit for 100, 200, 300 damage, if not more! Your health after 60% is... under 200, if not for your armor. The odds favor the chea- *ahem* the boss, of course.

You're screwed. You fail. There aren't enough mobs left for the DP-reducing XP. Thanks Death Penalty! I couldn't lose you fast enough!

/resign
/sigh

I'm sorry, but this sequence of events takes place way, way too often in Guild Wars. Death Penalty is easy to lose, in the right situations, but in others it is nigh impossible. Once you have it, you're done. Game over man.

I know, I know. The Death Penalty mechanic can't be fully removed from the game. Balance issues and all that... *coughwhatbalance?!hack* But the way it is reduces can be altered. Instead of +75XP = -1%, why can't it be 1 Kill = -1%? Get rid of it faster, without buffs or scrolls, helpful as they are when you have them. Get back into the fight! The AI's already crippled, DP acts only as lead paint chips, or gas fumes.

One kill, one percent. It's simple math. Make the game fun again.

Discuss.

Not to overgeneralize or anything, but it sounds to me like you're basing this idea entirely on the fact that you think you lose too often at a dungeon. Personally I think success shouldn't be guaranteed, and making this scenario something to watch out for and worth avoiding makes your in-dungeon achievements actually mean something.

I say this even though it happens to me. I've seen my share of partywide max DP in more than one dungeon. Sometimes we still manage to push through and fight the boss tooth and nail for our reward chest, and sometimes we have to call it quits. That's not a problem with Guild Wars, losing is just part of any balanced game. Trying to remove it isn't the same thing as making it fun.

Lonesamurai · Dec 05, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Is this a joke thread from April thats been necro'd?

street peddler · Dec 05, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

op should change the thread title, people see "death penalty has got to go!" come in and dont read anything else and just type "lol no".

Change it to 'Death penalty should be changed" or something more reasonable.

Tyla · Dec 05, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

/notsigned.
and yes i read the "1 kill = -1 dp point"
yes its obvious reasons.

Turtle222 · Dec 05, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

no it shouldn't have to go.

/notsigned